Your company 10x's in 14 months, and AI is rewriting the rules of recruiting. Now what? Dr. Serena Huang talks with Roopesh Panchasra, SVP of Global Talent Acquisition at NScale, and Iris Hermelin, Chief People Officer at WEKA, about scaling culture and hiring for potential over pedigree in a market where AI talent is scarce.
In hypergrowth, process can either sharpen the engine or smother the innovation that got you there. Dr. Serena Huang sits down with Roopesh Panchasra, SVP of Global Talent Acquisition at NScale, and Iris Hermelin, Chief People Officer at WEKA, to unpack how they are thinking about hiring and building culture at companies growing explosively fast. They talk about adding interview rigor without slowing down, why they hire for potential over pedigree, and how AI is reshaping recruiting on both sides of the table.
Timestamps:
0:30 - Meet Iris and Roopesh
2:15 - NScale's growth to 1,000 people
4:42 - What makes a good day in people operations
6:50 - Adding rigor without killing innovation
9:05 - Using data to test hiring assumptions
11:07 - Defining organizational health
16:46 - Keeping culture alive at scale
19:48 - Screening for empathy and values
22:39 - Hiring for potential vs. pedigree
29:37 - How AI is reshaping recruiting
33:04 - The fake applicant problem
35:35 - Hiring in the current market
Links:
[00:00:00] Roopesh Panchasra: The role of the recruiter really in its current form, whether it's campus, professional, or exec, uh, will never be the same. And, and this is still very early days.
[00:00:09] Iris Hermelin: We can hire, you know, people that are relatively earlier in their career because AI is actually giving them the opportunity and, uh, yeah, you know, to become experts much, much, much faster than a few years ago.
[00:00:29] Serena Huang: Welcome to Deep Geeks. Today, I'm joined by two people leaders who have first-hand experience in hyper-growth environments. Roopesh and Iris, welcome.
I think I'll just open up and try to get to know you a little bit, if you could share, um, how you got here. And my, my question to most CHROs, Iris, is what made you say yes to this top job?
Um, and if you could, yeah, just bring us back to the moment, what you were considering, and-
[00:01:04] Iris Hermelin: Yeah ... and then we can go from there. In your mind, it's tough. For me, it's actually, I love it. It's my... And I generally mean it. It's my hobby. My work is my hobby. I really love it. Wow. I mean, uh, I really like solving problems, tough problems, and I really like, you know, connecting to people on a personal level and get to know people on a personal level.
Um, and I'm doing basically what I love.
[00:01:33] Serena Huang: That's amazing. Um, I, I think there's a saying, like, if you love what you do, you, you don't, you don't work a day in your life, right? So.
[00:01:42] Iris Hermelin: It's absolutely true, this saying. Yeah. The... I mean, obviously there are days that I feel the grinding and, you know, WEKA is, uh, uh, we're operating as a startup.
I'm, I'm sure that in your place- Yeah ... uh, Roopesh as well, and scale as well.
[00:01:58] Roopesh Panchasra: Mm-hmm.
[00:01:58] Iris Hermelin: Uh, but, uh, but it's fun. Yeah. We always remember also to, you know, to add the fun factor to our work, to our day-to-day.
[00:02:09] Serena Huang: Yes. Yeah, on that note, Roopesh, what about you? Um, I've seen the tremendous growth at your company. Um, it's so much...
Gosh, was it 100 to 950 in 14 months? Correct me if I'm wrong.
[00:02:25] Roopesh Panchasra: Well, since that email was sent, we're at 1,050 now. But it may increase during the course of this conversation, so I'll give you a live tracker, a live update. But yes, it's scaled significantly. It's, it's scaled significantly.
[00:02:39] Serena Huang: Yeah. What, what does your typical Tuesday morning even look like?
[00:02:45] Roopesh Panchasra: Oh my goodness. Um, each day is a bit of a blur, to be honest. The- Mm-hmm ... you know, like London doesn't have the seasons anymore, um, the, the weeks don't have names. I think, look, it's, it's never been busier at the moment, but, um, I, what you said, I think, I do think there's a direct correlation, and this is what I tell my team, of enjoying the work you do, enjoying the people you work alongside and, and productivity. I, you know, over the years you've seen those that have really performed the best are the ones that come in with a skip in their step and a smile on their face. And hey, there's good days and bad days, but generally speaking, um, you know, those that enjoy it, um, t- tend to be more productive.
But my, I think my typical Tuesday is Um, c- you know, trying to, um, solve for the incredible ambition, you know, Enscale has at the moment. Um, you know, they've raised lots of capital. You've seen the, the Series B and Series C funding and, and that can happen in months, but scaling a business can take, you know, months and, and years sometimes.
So I think scrappy is a good way of describing it, but I think that's an overly used term because I think scrappy can sometimes imply careless.
[00:04:02] Serena Huang: Mm.
[00:04:03] Roopesh Panchasra: This is not careless. Um, otherwise you just wouldn't scale to these kind of numbers and, and have the success that we've had. It ... I mean, we're only a two-year-old business.
So it's not careless. It's scrappy. It's doing what we need to do now to deliver what the business needs us to. And I think that evolves over time, and it becomes, uh, more sophisticated. But, um, yeah, it's, it's pretty relentless is, uh, is a good way of putting it.
[00:04:28] Serena Huang: Relentless. I like it.
[00:04:30] Roopesh Panchasra: Yeah.
[00:04:30] Serena Huang: I like it. When you mention, you know, having good days and bad days, I'm curious for both of you if you can think about what a recent good day looks like, what made it really good, and maybe walk us through, 'cause you, you love what you do and you're successful.
Um, but give us a little behind the scenes.
[00:04:51] Iris Hermelin: Yeah. For me at WEKA, a good day in general, uh, is a day that there is a progress. Uh- Mm. And there ... I can't ... Since I started at WEKA three years ago, slightly over three years ago, I can't remember a week without a significant progress.
[00:05:09] Serena Huang: My goodness.
[00:05:09] Iris Hermelin: And that makes me tick, and, and my team as well.
I mean, uh, in general, we're very much execution-driven. Uh, and this is one of our, you know, competencies that we're measuring- Mm ... you know, the team on. And for me personally, a bad day is a day that, uh, you know, I like, you know, doing multiple things at once and, you know, touching upon multiple topics. And, uh, my days, you know, can be, you know, I can
I know how my day starts. I never know how it evolves. Let's put it this way. Okay. Yeah. It's very chaotic, uh, and it's fun. That's how I like it. So, uh, when, you know, on weeks that it's a little bit slower, and that is, there is only like, you know, heads down work and, and, you know, uh, some projects to run, but, you know, less of a chaos, uh, I like it less.
[00:06:06] Roopesh Panchasra: I love that, Irit. When the good days are when progress is made, and I think that's, it's so key, isn't it? Yeah. And sometimes progress can be just small nodes of progress in certain areas. Yeah. And sometimes progress can be, you know, colossal. But I think as long as you're moving in that direction, um, it happens in increments, but I agree with you.
That's a, that's a, that's a good day.
[00:06:31] Iris Hermelin: Um- And I'm cur- I'm curious, Roopesh, you know, uh, um, at Enscale since you're a relatively newer company and you grew- Yeah ... superfast. Can you tell me a little bit about the, um, process versus, you know, operating without a process? Because, you know, you need to grow ultra-fast.
How do you do it, uh, since, you know, I'm sure that your recruiting infrastructure are not, like, fully baked yet?
[00:07:01] Roopesh Panchasra: Yeah.
[00:07:02] Iris Hermelin: How do you go about it?
[00:07:03] Roopesh Panchasra: I thought Serena was asking the questions, but that's a really good question, Irit. So I, I think coming in, um, you know, what was very clear to me... I mean, the company's two years old.
I've only been here for six months. Um, but I mean, just to put this into perspective, January last year it was 100 people. When I joined there was 300, and that was in January this year. We're now 1,000. So the, the worst thing I can do is to let process, um, overpower innovation and curiosity, and I think you only get to where you are if you have innovative thought leaders, um, that are curious.
That are curious about delving into the unknown and curious about doing things that nobody else has done and, um, and, you know, breaking the mold. And so you, you know, I'm coming in saying- It, it can't be right that some people are having two interviews, some people are having five, some people are taking interview notes, and some people are not.
And others, others are doing testing and others are not. Like- Mm ... yes, you've grown really fast and you've been successful, but we need to add some rigor into the engine. Um, I think this is about, number one, justifying why you're doing things and doing this, um, and communicating the outcomes of your change as opposed to the-
[00:08:23] Iris Hermelin: Yeah
[00:08:23] Roopesh Panchasra: communicating the change. Um, and showing how it would actually give us some positive outcomes. So, you know, I, I very simply, putting a structured interview process in place, we all know it, it's obvious because people are nodding, but you're still changing the way very successful founders have been doing it, and if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't be where we are today.
So it's about getting sponsorship and showing the outcomes before you introduce the change is, is sort of the, the theory of how I've been managing it.
[00:08:56] Serena Huang: I like that. And Roopesh, we, um, we didn't have time to touch on this, but I led people analytics in large organizations for a very long time- Yeah ... so for a, a while I was the scientist testing what works in hiring, right?
How many interviews do we need? I have a hypothesis, let's test it with data. We believe this question matters more than this other one, and then we let the data tell us. It sounds like, I'm curious if data plays a role in how you decide, 'cause you're growing so quickly, it almost feels like you don't have time, but how do you actually know what works as you decide what process to change, what steps to remove or add?
[00:09:40] Roopesh Panchasra: Yeah, that's a really good question. So data fundamentally plays a, a part in our process. I mean, part of this i- to justify why a TA dashboard needed to be built, why we need to identify and agree upon- Yeah ... key metrics, and not just, um, TA metrics, the traditional ones. Right. I think that the outcomes of the metrics of the work that we're doing, but also organizational health.
So-
[00:10:06] Serena Huang: Yes.
[00:10:07] Roopesh Panchasra: I don't know. Mm-hmm. Like, testing the hypothesis that you don't have to only hire from the five target companies for people to be successful. And like, so there's data to suggest, um, how fast people are promoted and how, how they progress in the organization, what their performance is like over
What most companies would do yearly, we do quarterly. We check in on performance. So we iterate quickly. That allows us to have more data points to determine whether we're making the right decisions. Um, but yeah, fundamentally plays a role. We, we built our own, um, dashboard to be unique to sort of what we're doing.
[00:10:42] Serena Huang: I love that.
[00:10:43] Roopesh Panchasra: Yeah.
[00:10:44] Serena Huang: Yeah. On, on that note around dashboards and organizational health, um, I think a lot of companies are starting to pay more attention with AI, right? How, how does our, how does our company look tomorrow? And Iris, I know you work so much on the culture. Can you share a bit on your perspective on w- how do you define organizational health for you at WEKA?
Um, what, what do you consider? How do you know you're healthy? Um, and maybe we'll- Yeah ... start with you, and then we go to Roopesh.
[00:11:15] Iris Hermelin: So obviously we pulse the organization, uh, every year, and sometimes more than that. But, you know, for the most part, you feel it, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, uh, my team and our leaders are talking with their teams.
We are building good, like, you know, communication streamline between, uh, the business and, and the HR. Uh, our HR team and the recruiting team has a seat on the table, so we work very, very closely with the team and make sure that, you know, we are constantly improving. Uh, and we make some mistakes as well, right?
But we know how to iterate fast and, and, uh, make some, uh, changes. Uh, and obviously there is a way to, uh, check organizational health through data, uh, and that's our, you know, main pulse. But there are things that you can't really measure, right? You need to talk with leaders. You need to talk with the team, with the ground, with the, you know, with, with the interns, with the, you know, the rest of the employees, the new grads in the organization, the people that are not coming into, you know, a physical office that sometimes feel more isolated, right?
And we try to meet with them as often as we can, um, and- Understand, you know, how they feel, how they experience WEKA. One of the things that we really encourage our entire population is to bring their true self to work.
[00:12:42] Serena Huang: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:42] Iris Hermelin: Uh, and this is one of the reasons that I joined WEKA, right? We have representation in over 20 countries across the globe, many different cultures, many different, uh, uh, locations and time zones.
Uh, we need to find ways to connect everyone and, you know, doing some, uh, uh, obviously initiatives, uh, that will connect everyone, that's one aspect. But also encouraging people to really bring their true self to work. You know, there is no, for me, there is no one Iris at home and one Iris at work. I'm trying to really be genuine, be authentic, be direct, uh, with my team and with everyone around me, and encourage people to open up and, uh, uh, and talk and bring some insight, uh, to the org- back to the organization.
Uh, so you know, obviously we're leveraging AI. Uh, and you know, we built, uh, as Roopesh said, we built a lot of dashboards, recruiting dashboards, and AI, and, uh, sorry, HR dashboards. We, we measure attrition, we measure mobility, we measure tenure, organizational structure, um, uh, performance. We have manager academy.
We have many, many different dashboards, but at the end of the day, uh, that is not creating, uh, or measuring the orga- the organizational health. The organizational health is data-driven, but also-
[00:14:14] Serena Huang: Conversation ...
[00:14:15] Iris Hermelin: conversational in what we feel, yeah, when we speak with, with our population. Um-
[00:14:21] Serena Huang: Well, what's your favorite question to ask the interns?
[00:14:27] Iris Hermelin: Uh, yeah. I mean, I like asking them, or maybe sometimes telling them, uh, you know, that this is, uh, you know, what they think that they will do next will not necessarily be, uh, you know, what will- they will do in their career. So my main mentorship or coaching point for them will be, you know, to be open-mi- minded and to dev- to focus on developing really good collaboration internally, to be curious, to ask many questions, to get to know as many people, but also as many functions as possible.
Because, you know, the fact that you learned neuroscience or computer engineering or, uh, uh, human resources doesn't mean that that's what you will end up in your career, especially now with the AI era, right? Uh, people are, you know, can do, uh, there is unlimited, uh, opportunities and possibilities and potential to what an individual can do and able to do.
So, uh, being open-minded and curious, that's, you know, my, my main, uh- guidance for the interns, and I'm always asking them what they want to do, and I'll be curious to watch their growth and see, you know, how they evolve in their career.
[00:15:51] Serena Huang: Yeah. Couldn't, couldn't agree more. R- Roopesh, what would you add to that?
[00:15:57] Roopesh Panchasra: That's difficult to add to that. Can I just say ditto? Because everything, uh- ... Iri- Iris said, I agree with. I mean, we're, we're slightly earlier in stage. I mean, we've only done, we've only ever done one pulse survey here. Um, the second one is due to go out, I believe, in the next few months. So there's lots of learning from that.
Not only, um, people being willing to participate, but l- learning and, uh, taking actions from the responses that we got. I think, you know, from a culture standpoint, which is I think what you were asking, you know, what's really apparent to us, um, and from the people standpoint we're very conscious about is, you know, it wasn't that long ago this was 50 people, and when it's 50 people, like, culture travels by osmosis, right?
Yeah. Every- everyone's sat in the same room. Everyone hears from the founder. Everyone hears the founders with their reasoning around why we're here and why we created this and the journey that we wanna be on. But when you get to 100 and 500 and 1,000, it, it has to travel with a level of purpose, you know?
Yeah. Uh, when someone says, "I actually didn't know that was happening," or, "I wasn't aware of that acquisition," you know at that point, like, you have to be deliberate. It has to be repeated. You have to articulate it, not assume people understand.
[00:17:22] Serena Huang: Mm.
[00:17:22] Roopesh Panchasra: And I think from a leadership standpoint, I, I think as leaders and myself, I'm sure Iris is the same, and others in the organization, um, we have to be visible.
We have to communicate. You know, culture is people. That's what, you know, it's not the, it's not the website, it's not the PowerPoint, it's the people. Right. And if, if you have one team of people that all come from the same company, guess what? That's the culture you have there.
[00:17:49] Serena Huang: Yeah.
[00:17:49] Roopesh Panchasra: So being mindful of that and making sure leaders are, um, you know, inspiring from the very top, um, and keeping their finger on the pulse of what's happening across their teams, and then feeding back, um, I think is key.
Yeah. And, and the nimbleness of who we are as a company has to be- Yeah ... translated into the nimbleness of how we communicate, and I think that's ... We're very conscious of that.
[00:18:14] Iris Hermelin: I totally agree. Essentially, the people are the culture, right? I mean, uh- Right ... and culture is evolving. As you said, Roopesh, your 50 people, the culture was completely different than what it is, uh, today at Endscale, I'm sure.
And, and similarly, you know, at WEKA. You know, every six months I feel, and I'm sure that many others are feeling, that it's essentially a new company. And, uh, uh, and we are evolving as a company and as a culture, uh, in a good way. So, uh, and what fits to the comp- you know, to the company culture three years ago doesn't necessarily fit today.
So, um- Yeah ... the, the core, you know, since I joined, the core stayed, right? I mean, we tend to hire leaders and managers that are doers, that are rolling their sleeves, that, uh, are not just leading the team, but also, you know, are, are very involved and, and want to get to know, you know, what their teams are doing and, you know, want to contribute and help and support.
Uh, and that's, that's probably the core and the execution-driven approach, uh, that we always had. We have a, you know, culture of, you know, demanding execution and, and leaders, but we, we cover it with a lot of empathy and careness, uh, you know, to make a little bit more fun for the, for the day.
[00:19:42] Serena Huang: Y- Yael, I'm curious, if you're willing to share, how do you evaluate for that?
That sounds so difficult. Yes, empathy and care. Who wouldn't love that? But especially- Yeah ... when you're hiring, let's say, the next set of senior leaders or managers coming in and you want them to embody those values, how, how do you know?
[00:20:03] Iris Hermelin: So first, you know, lots of conversations, right? I mean, we speak with, not just with the managers.
My team is not here to speak only with the executives or the VPs or the leaders across the org. We actually speak and pulse all the, you know, as much as possible, right? Uh, we sample many employees and, uh, on a regular basis and a regular cadence, and we hear. And it bubble u- it bubbles up really, really fast if there is a situation that, uh, shouldn't, shouldn't be, right, uh, or a manager that is, you know- Does- doesn't really embody the right, uh, uh, values or an employee that doesn't embody the right values.
I always say that, you know, the, the, the values and the culture and the behavior and the collaboration and the communication is 50% of the performance. Mm. Yeah. So- Yeah. Uh, so that, that's, uh, that's one thing. And another thing that helps us is obviously the, the performance cycle, that we have, uh, upward manager feedback, that all employees are providing feedback to their managers.
[00:21:11] Serena Huang: Okay.
[00:21:11] Iris Hermelin: And also the, the survey, the, the engagement survey pulse that we're doing annually. And then, uh, in this survey we have a section for the managers as well, and we learn a lot through it. And, uh, luckily, our managers are really appreciative of getting feedback and providing feedback, and are inviting feedback for themselves, and they want to, you know, to change, and they want to improve constantly.
So, um, that, that's really, really helpful.
[00:21:42] Serena Huang: What about you, Roopesh? As you're thinking about the, the senior leaders you need in the organization from a hiring lens, can you share a bit on how you actually evaluate that? Maybe give us some tips if someone wanted to be a senior leader in, in this industry going forward, what should they do?
[00:22:01] Roopesh Panchasra: Yeah. Very, very good question. They, I think there's no exact science to it, as, as we know, because, um, sometimes the interview persona is not the same as the real persona. Mm-hmm. Especially if you're a senior leader, um, you can be whoever you wanna be at that interview. So, um, uh, uh, and we've all seen that, right?
And so I think that we're making a, a, a conscious effort, um, and this is not, hasn't always been the case, and I, and genuinely would not say it's perfect today, but again, I talked about testing the hypothesis that- You have to have-- I think we spoke about this last time. Do you have to have done the job to get the job?
[00:22:38] Iris Hermelin: Yeah.
[00:22:39] Roopesh Panchasra: And how certainly senior search has always worked, and I've been in search most of my career is, of course it does. If you're looking for a CFO, well, guess what? You're gonna source for people that have held that role in companies that you admire, that have an overlap of, you know, some kind of industry overlap.
Um, and then you would assess the fit, right? And I think there is-- We need to test that, and we are testing that. Like, we need to test the fact that you and I, we all know fantastic people that would be incredibly successful in the, the environments that we're all in that have never stepped foot in a data center.
Like, we all know them. Um, but the chances of them getting through the process is very slim unless you're gonna make more of an effort into, number one, being prepared to, um, be open to strategic introductions. So outside of this search, w- at the moment you have a senior search, there's an urgency to fill that seat.
[00:23:38] Serena Huang: Yes.
[00:23:38] Roopesh Panchasra: And so you'll tend to go after what you know. Mm-hmm. And if you're a hiring manager for a senior executive, and you've been wildly successful over the years doing it the same way, who am I to tell them to change the way they operate, right? And so you need to try and do that off the ball. Meaning, when they don't necessarily need somebody in that role, and it could be tied into succession, it could be tied into an overall sort of ta- talent-- building the talent landscape.
But why don't, uh, why aren't you curious enough to meet incredible people- Yeah ... that do the same kind of role, maybe from an inda- different industry sector, and get to know them? And we do events and round tables, and all of a sudden, they're warming to people they never thought they'd warm to. And I think that's o- one way of looking at it.
There's also the way of, hey, if we are looking at the, the, the, the obvious profiles, this cannot be just about have you done this role at a company that we admire. It tr- it cannot be, because just because they've been successful in one environment, um, a different company is like a different planet. Like, how are you gonna survive?
So I think we need to codify who we are, what our culture is, and what we genuinely believe in, and tie that into our assessment process. Um, making sure the interviewers have a role and responsibility, making sure we're really, you know, nailing down the competencies that we feel are gonna be successful in any given role or department, and then assessing against them.
And, and you know, it's, it's working in the sense that the number of people that would have otherwise been an obvious hire- Yeah ... haven't made it through the process.
[00:25:23] Iris Hermelin: Yeah.
[00:25:23] Roopesh Panchasra: Um, because on paper they should have got the job, and I, and I think that's, that's a win. They're being selected out for different reasons outside of having done the job before.
Does that make sense?
[00:25:34] Serena Huang: Yes, it does, very much. And, uh, oh my God, I can't, I can't imagine your job. So, um, I was an executive recruiter for a hot second because my CEO decided that we wanted to bring more data into the process, and was giving me something challenging. No joke. I think I lasted maybe a week, yeah.
I said, "I, I need to go back to doing what I'm good at doing." Um, but yes, very much, um, you know, one of the things we started doing was a monthly coffee with senior leadership team- Yeah ... and introducing them to, you know, both virtually and sometimes in person in hubs, people they would not normally talk to, people they would not normally, um, have thought of for the role.
And, and guess what? Some of them did turn into successful hires, but many months, many, many months down the road when something opens up.
[00:26:22] Iris Hermelin: Right.
[00:26:23] Serena Huang: Um, and absolutely- Right ... that works 'cause when you only search when you need someone, you are limited because, well, time, the time pressure is, is real. Time pressure is
[00:26:33] Roopesh Panchasra: real.
We're, we're all guilty of it. Yes. We've all- we're all hiring managers, and the moment I have someone incredible leave and I have to replace them-
[00:26:41] Serena Huang: Yes ...
[00:26:41] Roopesh Panchasra: how prepared am I? If you really think, I mean, the, the theory behind it is real.
[00:26:46] Serena Huang: Yeah.
[00:26:46] Roopesh Panchasra: But in reality, if you needed a people analytics expert- Yeah. ... how, you know, how prepared are you to hire someone that hasn't done the job before, but they may- Right
have the skill set? Like- Yeah ... we're all guilty of it. So I think, uh, there's learning for us all.
[00:27:03] Iris Hermelin: Yeah. That's exactly that. But even if you hire someone that is like, you know, super skilled and have done it before, it can't predict, you know, how they will operate, right- Right ... when they'll join the company.
So-
[00:27:15] Serena Huang: Yes ...
[00:27:15] Iris Hermelin: if you'll ask me, uh, Serena, I'd much rather hiring for potential. Uh, obviously it has to be somehow close of a profile that- It's more important to hire people, you know, that likely will have, you know, the, the, the attributes that the organization is looking for, the competencies that we're measuring our employees on.
You know, we, we need people that are execution-driven, that knows how to problem solve, that, uh, has ownership and accountability, that are aligned with our values, and that can learn and be adaptable, especially now with AI, right? And this counts at least equally to their professional experience. Uh, and it's really, really hard, it's much harder to find people that really match the, the organizational culture and values- Yeah
than to find people that 100% fits the, you know, the professional experience. And I'd much rather, you know, have the right balance probably between the professional experience to the right, you know, values that will fit in the organization. Uh, by the way, our values was a long journey. We did, uh, you know, a, a program of about one year old and, uh, uh, we Part- you know, the entire population participated in choosing our organizational values, and we landed on ABC squared.
We are accountable, brave, collaborative, and customer-centric. And we embedded it, to Roopesh's point- Wow ... in, uh, in the interview process. So basically, every interviewer has a kit of questions that they can ask, and obviously they can change it, that really show them, you know, if a candidate ca- has the potential to embody our company, uh, values.
I
[00:29:16] Serena Huang: love that. That really helps. That's amazing. Especially in, in your industry. Uh, AI talent is so hard to find, right? It's very scarce, and you can't find- Yeah ... a ton of people with the perfect fit, the right experience. They, they just don't exist. Um, and- Yeah ... and I'm curious how AI is changing what you do.
Is it, is it, uh, from everything that you have shared, it sounds like you are, you are using a very human process, which I love. Um, how, how is AI changing it for you, if at all?
[00:29:49] Iris Hermelin: We are, I mean, AI is changing, first it's simplifying the process. You know, we have, uh, data, we have dashboards. We can evaluate the process constantly and in a much easier way.
Uh, we also, um, uh, able to analyze later on, uh, in a much more simple way if we hire the successful talent to the organization. Uh, you know, we can pull the data much easy- in, in a much easier way for the one-year churn and how many people stayed in the organization, and if the process that we handled was a good process or not, uh, and vice versa, right?
So, um, that, that's how AI really helps us. Roopesh,
[00:30:34] Serena Huang: what about you?
[00:30:35] Roopesh Panchasra: Yeah. I, I, I mean, it's completely transformed really the way we go about our end-to-end recruiting process, and this is just the very beginning, I feel. Um, you know, if we think about how we, uh, let me just start from the beginning. I mean- The competitive market intelligence gathering, it's done in seconds.
Um, the candidate ID, the sourcing, the, the screening at volume. I mean, WEKA and Endscale don't suffer from volume of applications. I mean- Right ... uh, where organizations, you know, we, we don't. Our brand is, and this is still early days for both of us, our brand is propelling, it's being amplified. More and more people are hearing about who we are and what we do, and the byproduct of that is there's far more traffic than we've ever had before.
Yeah. So the traditional subjective way recruiting has always been is you have a visual, you know, you make a visual assessment. And despite how sophisticated your company is in terms of their product suite and what they offer to their customers, most organizations still work in that way. So we, we've had to automate that.
Um, so screening at volume, market mapping, talent intelligence, scheduling is all automate- automated. And really it's that, um, how would I put it? Like, it's almost that repetitive first mile, right? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. It's to get us to a stage where- Yeah ... you know, hiring decisions have to be made. The interview itself has to happen.
The, the questions and the feel and the fit and the culture and, um, the enthusiasm. Um, you know, w- if we can take away from a lot of that repetitive first mile and really focus on the human element, I think that's really helped us. Now, don't get me wrong, like we've come a long way. There's still a long way to go.
But, um, I, we, it's made a massive shift and, you know, I'd go as far as to say the, the role of the recruiter really in its current form, whether it's campus, professional, or exec, uh, will never be the same. And, and this is still very early days. And I think even now when I'm interviewing for people across my team, if you don't have a level of fluency around how this has changed your end-to-end recruiting process, I mean, you, you don't, you don't get through.
Um, so yeah, a, a lot has changed in the way we, we go about it. Yeah.
[00:33:01] Serena Huang: Now, of course, you are not the only ones using AI. The candidates are as well.
[00:33:06] Roopesh Panchasra: Mm-hmm.
[00:33:06] Serena Huang: How are you handling the, you know, I, I don't know, 10x, 100x, maybe 1,000x quantity of resumes coming in because of AI? Is that, is that a huge problem for you right now?
[00:33:21] Roopesh Panchasra: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's huge. It's huge because, um, we have a tool that helps us, and again, it's not an exact science, but helps us identify the applications that are either unreal, um, and, and through various data points. It's either how the application is structured, it could be, um... Let me give you an example of a recent one where we had 100 applicants of the same...
So the applicant applying 100 times for- Okay ... for dif- for different positions. It's the same person with the same contact details, but, you know, multiple different personas in terms of what they do. Like, um, I know that's an obvious one, but the tool identifies some obvious signals like that and- Yeah ... and gives a rating against how likely they are to be an AI-generated application.
Yeah. Um, and look, video interviews, you have to keep your video on because we know what can happen, and there's certain questions that we would ask, and we guide our interviewers that if, during the course of the interview, they suspect-
[00:34:23] Serena Huang: Mm ...
[00:34:23] Roopesh Panchasra: that, um, you know, something's not quite right, there's some trigger questions that they could ask.
[00:34:29] Iris Hermelin: Gotcha.
[00:34:29] Roopesh Panchasra: But yeah, it's the, it's not obvious. It's a huge problem in our industry.
[00:34:33] Iris Hermelin: Yeah. Today, the ATS system are actually flagging, uh, um, if, if profile seems fake. Mm-hmm. So it's relatively easy- Yeah ... to identify, and also, you know, uh, uh, it's, it's relatively obvious. Uh, but we try to rely, and, and you know, I'm sure Roopesh, you as well, on employee referrals and on sourcing.
Mm-hmm. And obviously we- Yeah ... love AI for sourcing. But the majority of our, our hires are actually through our own sourcing and employee referral program. Wow. Uh, and obviously applicants are being considered as well and, and being hired a lot at WEKA as well. But, uh, um, I don't remember situations that we had to interview, uh, or started an interview process with a fake profile.
[00:35:21] Serena Huang: Wow.
[00:35:22] Iris Hermelin: But definitely we have many, many more applicants-
[00:35:25] Serena Huang: Yes.
[00:35:25] Iris Hermelin: Yeah ... now, and some of them are f- fake and flagged early on.
[00:35:31] Serena Huang: Yeah. This is one of the wildest markets I feel like I have- It really is ... personally seen. Um, and because of AI, and you also are hiring in one of the toughest industries in AI infrastructure, so niche, um, maybe we can close with just one word you would use to describe to us, make it real, what does it feel like to hire in this market right now?
Iris and then Roopesh.
[00:35:57] Iris Hermelin: For me, if I had to choose one word- Exciting
[00:36:03] Serena Huang: Exciting?
[00:36:04] Iris Hermelin: Super exciting. Yeah. Yeah. I can see the opportunity ahead of us. It's, uh, uh, and if I need to expand, we are not hiring necessarily ... I mean, it's very niche, and you always need to balance, right? So we're not necessarily hiring experts in every area, right?
We need to hire a couple of experts and people that has the potential to become experts within a year. Uh, so it's really exciting because, you know, we can hire new grads now. We can hire, you know, people that are relatively earlier in their career because AI is actually giving them the opportunity and, uh, yeah, you know, to become experts much, much, much faster than few years ago.
[00:36:50] Serena Huang: I love that. That's so optimistic. I, I hope the new grads or college students who are listening, uh, hear that from our Chief People Officer 'cause, um, thank you for giving, giving us hope. Yeah. Of course. Rakesh, your one word for what does it feel like to be hiring right now in this market?
[00:37:10] Roopesh Panchasra: Yeah. Very similar word.
I was thinking of invigorating, and I, and I ... Let me just explain. Oh, wow. Yeah. I'm gonna explain what I mean. I've been, I'm very old, and I've been doing this for a long, long time. Um, but I, I thoroughly enjoy what I do, and, and that's what Iris said at the top. Like, she gen- clearly enjoys what she does, but I feel I've got my mojo back.
Like, I feel- ... the, the market's turned on its head, and what was once obvious is not in our space, and AI is transforming it. And I didn't think, honestly, that I needed to learn anything anymore, and I could still perform relatively well. And the fact that I'm being pushed, and I need to stay ahead, and people are looking at me for the answers or at least to surround myself with people with those answers, wow, I feel like I'm at school again.
[00:37:58] Iris Hermelin: Right.
[00:37:58] Roopesh Panchasra: So, um, so for many, they would think, "Mm-mm, this is not for me. My learning days are done." Um, but yeah, I'm f- I'm finding it like, gosh, I, it's, it's fantastic that we're reinventing the way things have been done for decades. Um, and that's pretty cool.
[00:38:19] Serena Huang: Very, very cool. Yes, invigorating and exciting. There you have it.
Well, thank you both so much for joining Deep Geeks today and sharing your insights and experience. I really appreciate learning from both of you.
[00:38:34] Iris Hermelin: Thank you. Thanks, Serena. Thank
[00:38:35] Roopesh Panchasra: you, Serena.
[00:38:36] Iris Hermelin: Thanks,
[00:38:36] Roopesh Panchasra: Roopesh. Thanks, Iris. Lovely to see you again.
[00:38:39] Iris Hermelin: You too.
[00:38:39] Serena Huang: Thanks for listening to Deep Geeks. A huge thank you to my guests today, Iris and Roopesh.
If today's episode made you think differently about how AI gets built or powered, share it with someone who needs to hear it. Find Deep Geeks on Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time.